[Devils-list] Canadian memorial service

[Rick Berk]

Jason-
I suppose I can understand your comments.  I am guilty of being
tremendously patriotic. Actually, I don't consider it guilty, because I
am proud to be American, but ok... to explain from our side....I am a
bit of a US History buff... so I know where the feeling comes from.
It is the nature of our history that produces this pride. Other
countries have existed for hundreds of years- they may have undergone
changes, but their general history and origin is the same as it was for
several hundred years- such as Britain.  The United States is just 200
years old (and yes I realize Canada is similar in age), but we've
overcome a lot in those 200 years.
This is a nation that has been built from the ground up by men who were
backed into corners, and put down until they were forced to fight.  It's
a nation that has been torn apart from within, only to be rebuilt even
stronger.  It is a nation that has been built on innovative thinking,
and on blood sweat and tears of the people who built it.  Look at the
American Revolution... look at the Civil War.  The Moon Landing. The
first mass produced automobile.  Flight.  These are things which
Americans accomplished.  It is only natural for us to take great pride
in that. 

Maybe sometimes we go overboard. Maybe sometimes it is inappropriate.
But over the 200+ years of our country, we've overcome obstacles; we've
fought wars, and defended our nation against enemies both foreign and
domestic.  Most Americans feel proud to be here.  And because of that,
we skew things our way. It's not intentional, and it's not to belittle
the rest of the world. 

Personally, I know little of Canadian history.  But I am sure I would be
just as proud to be Canadian if I had grown up there. As it is, I am
proud that Canada is our northern neighbor.  Bottom line is, I guess
what I'm saying is that, not having come from where the USA has come
from, it is hard for outsiders to understand the pride we feel in our
country. We have made mistakes, but we have also accomplished much.
It's just too bad others in the world feel that, having accomplished
what we have, it is now open season on us to promote their ideals. I am
waiting for the day when we will accomplish their eradication from the
earth. 

Thanks for the post Jason.  I do know most Americans are aware of the
sentiment, and most, for the most part, regret that we are looked on
that way.  However, I'm not sure we should need to apologize for who we
are either.  Maybe just tone it down a bit I guess.
Rick
www.rickberk.com


-----Original Message-----
From: devils-list-admin@badweb.com [mailto:devils-list-admin@badweb.com]
On Behalf Of Jason Williams
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 3:55 PM
To: devils-list@badweb.com
Subject: Re: [Devils-list] Canadian memorial service

This is probably not the best time to mention things like this, but I
believe
it will give you some insight as to the state of mind of the global
Anti-American
(before the events of last week) opinion.

I'll begin with an example.  The Atlanda Olympics vs. the Sydney
Olympics. 
Think about the differences between the horrible Atlanta experience, and
the
best ever Sydney experience.  I'll come back to this later.

My roommates sister was on a student exchange program in the US a few
years
back.  Canadian citizen, US landed immagrant status.  She was sent to
the principal's
office when when she refused to pledge allegiance to the US flag.  Why
should
she?  She was there for one year and never was going to be a citizen.
Yet,
it was MANDATORY that she accept the US flag as her own.

What the US suffers from is EXCESSIVE national pride.  In the same way
as Albert
Belle and Dion Sanders embrrased themselved and their sports, the US is
looked
upon in a similar way by the rest of the world.  We have this New Zeland
example
below, my roommate who has been to Britain says the same thing.  My
grandmother
who has toured Europe as well as Turkey and Isreal says the same thing.
I don't
think you can doubt the validity of their words.

Back to the Olympic example.  In Atlanta, EVERYTHING was American.  If
you won
a medal, and you weren't American, you were ignored.  If an American
athlete
won Gold, the amount of (for lack of a better term) media ass kissing
was absolutely
sickening.  Even US athletes that didn't medal were completely ignored.
It
is this "Win or die" attitude that is just another example of this
excessive
US pride.

Take the Sydney Olympics.  What a wonderful example of how to welcome
the world.
 Sydney truly loved every athlete and country that came to compete.
Nobody
was unimportant.  No country forgotten.  No athlete overlooked.


As an athiest, I am the first to call for saturation bombing of ANY
facilities
housing such religious fanatics, with no regard for human life.  I truly
hope
the US, along with the rest of the world, ERADICATES every trace of any
organization
capable of these acts.  The purpose of this message was to explain why
Americans
are treated so poorly all over the world, and are such a target for
these acts.


I don't expect you to like what I have said, but I want you to read and
understand
why these opinions are held.

- Jason


>Yes, I saw that on C-SPAN and was moved.
>
>I had my doubts about Canada ever since my honeymoon in the So. Pacific
>in October of 1996.  We were in the Cooke Islands (4 plane hours
>northeast of Auckland, NZ), and when the local maitre'd was asking who
>was there from which countries, the Canadian came first and of course
we
>all clapped, but when he said Americans I noticed a majority of that
>Canadian group booed us quite rudely.  I was shocked and beside myself.

>I don't know what international thing was going on at that time to make
>them do that but I was quite insulted.  I also notice many Anti
American
>comments comming from Canadians, Brits, & others when I read
>Slashdot.org....
>
>Yes, the support the US is getting from Canadians, Brits, and others is
>going quite a ways to expunge the rudeness of recent years.  It IS
>noticed AND appreciated.
>
>
>>>----worlok--->
>
>
>
>Hoonani@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> Today, while the US memorial service was going on in Washington, I
>> happened to turn to C-SPAN.  They were covering the Canadian memorial
>> service which took place in Ottawa on Parliament Hill.  It was a
>> beautiful day in Ottawa!  The lawn in front of the Peace Tower was
>> filled with people....Canadian, Americans, and I'm sure folks from
all
>> over the world.  Canadian and American flags were EVERYWHERE.
>>  Canada's Prime Minister, Jean Chretien, gave a brief but powerful
>> speech and our ambassador to Canada was also quite moving.  The
>> feeling of the service was of our two countries being not just
>> friends, but family.  It was very emotional....very few people in the
>> crowd weren't crying.
>> Having lived in Ottawa, I already knew it was a beautiful city filled
>> with wonderful people....I felt very proud to have lived there!
>> C-SPAN frequently repeats what it has shown...so if you have a chance
>> to catch this, I strongly urge you to do so!
>> Be safe everybody,
>> Judy
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